Exclusive Wayne Coyne Part 2 Text Version

PUKKA Gallery Exclusive

Wayne Coyne interview Part 2
interviewed by Utayo Furukuni / 1 April 2002

U: Why is it Japanese?

W: I don't know.

U: The idea just came from your experience?

W: Well, you know, we started to do that stuff with that Yoshimi girl you know, 'Cos I really like her work. She is a great musician and you like that record, that OO I O O. And we knew her even from the Boredoms. There's a picture Michelle took from 1994 (at Lollapalooza). And from going to Japan and even meeting you and that Mutsuko woman who died, you know, that, I was, it's really powerful. It's not to exclude Japanese men, but mostly it's been Japanese women who are into us. It's like a real, it's submissive and it's dignified, it has a lot of humility about it. But it's not from, it's not to say you're superior to me. That's why I like it when you're saying, "I admire what you do and I admire you." But it doesn't, you know, there's something about that. It doesn't make you less to admire me. And I wanted that quality for myself. Because so many times in America, it's like, you like, say, a football player, you would say, "Oh, he's great!" and when you admire them, it makes you less.

U: Alright.

W: It's like "Oh, they are great, and I suck." Or you see an astronaut, "Oh, they go to the moon" you know, "Oh they are great and I suck." Or "They are beautiful, look at them, they are beautiful and I'm ugly." And I don't like that. You know, I didn't. And I always, when I was, there is something about the Japanese way of admiring something that doesn't diminish. It's, you know, I don't know what it is. But that's what I was always trying to capture. So it wasn't, you don't have to be, you're not lessened by this. If you see something that is great, it doesn't make you less. And I don't know if I'll be able to do that. That's what that image is supposed to be about, you know, but I don't know.

U: Humm...I know what you mean. Even if you admire a football player, in Japan, they are really great but I'm OK, too.

W: Right. It's not a competition or something. I remember like, when we were, I mean, when we would play, the audience would be there and they'd, "Oh, you...!" [Worshipping pose]

U: Oh, really? [Laughs]

W: But that isn't, it isn't, and we admire them the same way. It's so great the way that whole that all things work. But I would even go to like, McDonalds, and someone would be working there, and you wouldn't feel like, because they work at McDonalds, they should serve you. You sort of feel like, that's their job. And they all, they do it with some sort of dignity or something that didn't make you feel like they are serving you. And I don't know what it is. I can't quite explain what it is. So that's why I try to make it in somewhere in the music to express that. Because sometimes I think with music, you can say things that there is no words and there's nothing that we can, you know, we can't get it, we can't know what it is. But with the music and images maybe I can put that across to someone because it's a powerful thing. Because, I think sometimes that's why people'd like to do music that is, you too gave me like Blood Thirsty Butchers and Number Girl. And it's aggressive, and it's not that it isn't beautiful, it's just that it's messy and it's this and when you stand in front of it, you don't feel diminished by it. And sometimes with beautiful music and things I try to just talk of that you know, things that escape your mind. There is something you feel diminished by, then I don't want that. I want if people feel like what we do is powerful and beautiful. I don't want it to make them seem weak, I want them to feel like "Oh because I heard it, it makes me feel better" and that's, I don't know if I'll ever be able to do that, but that's what I'm trying to do in it. But in the big picture, I hope people like the way it looks and like a little story and that little Japanese girl fighting figure all fine.

U: I thought people must be surprised or wondering, why Yoshimi? And Japanese samples.

W: Well, it isn't. I don't know. To me it was just a character in a way. Yoshimi was a real person. But in the way I sing about Yoshimi in the song now, it's not a real person. It's just a story.

U: Using your imagination.

W: Yeah. And it's just, because she did stuff on those other songs. I remember when me and Steven, we, when we first heard her doing this, the screaming and stuff like in that the way like, you know, Pink Floyd, Dark Side of The Moon. There were some women singers who scream on that. [Screams] And me and Steven, I don't know if we were correct, but we always thought that this was a black woman with a big Afro. I don't know if she was or not. But in our minds we like the idea of the black woman with an afro, and when Yoshimi did the scream and the stuff on our songs we'd like the idea that the audience will think "Oh it's a little Japanese girl there, you know with a crazy hat on or something. But then we thought, you know, "How are you gonna know if she's Japanese." 'Cos she's really just screaming. It's not that she talks Japanese. She's really just screaming, and we thought, you know, the audience might not know. So we thought well we'll make sure of that. That's why we put in some Japanese talking, so the audience would think there's Wayne and Steven and Michael, and some Japanese girl. I thought I like that, and I don't know why. Some things you just like. So once I put some of her Japanese talking in there, I thought that the audience will know it's a Japanese woman singing and so if I put it on three or four songs, they would just always think "Oh that' that little Japanese girl singing with Wayne and Michael and I just like that. I don' know why.

U: It's quite funny. It's just a small Japanese girl screaming like [Screams]

W: Yeah, she's screaming more than anybody on the record. Yes. [Laughs] I didn't want people to think that it was a black woman or even an American woman. I don't know why. You didn't, I just thought that's what I wanted them to think.

U: It's such a ...it has a cartoon story.

W: Yeah, it reminded me of the Gorillaz. The way that the Gorillaz use that little Japanese girl. When I, that's what I like about the Gorillaz do, "Oh, I like that little Japanese girl.' Because we were doing in some way the same sort of thing, using a Japanese girl as a character. And even though we're not characters, me and Steven and Michael, feel like, we are, within The Flaming Lips, we're kind of characters in our own sense or something." And that, I think it started from something like that, and in the end, it just became, sort of, just a little silly story, like on Clouds Taste Metallic, there was Kim's Watermelon Gun. And who is Kim? I don't know. Who is Kim? You know, I think it started from us knowing Kim Deal but by the time it gets to a song, it's just a name and you're giving her a story. And it's the same with Yoshimi. It started with the, we know Yoshimi from the Boredoms. But in the song, it's just; it's just a Japanese thing.

U: Yes. Some people in Japan know who Yoshimi is. But most of them don't know. So it's just as you say...

W: Yeah, but I think when I would play it for people here, it was one of the first songs that I would play for people, just to say, "What do you think?" Just to see if they thought, "Oh, that's too weird, you're singing about some Japanese girl, what is that?" but they loved it. Everybody who heard it, especially the Yoshimi song, everybody was just like, "Oh, that's just, it's cute and it's powerful."

U: You mean No3 [Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots pt 1]

W: Yeah, No3. And then when they knew the title, they thought, "I like that even better," So I knew I was doing something that was appealing to people. And they weren't caring that it was Japanese.

U: Because this No3 song, while I'm listening to it, I can imagine what is happening in my mind.

W: Yeah, exactly, I know [Laughter] So when I do the cover, and they, just I know it gives us just this great little image, and I don't know if that's good or not. I just thought, you know like I said earlier, sometimes we do something that is so abstract. And it's so ambiguous, as to what has been said. Some other times I would just like to say "This is what's being said." And let it other aspects be ambiguous as to what was going on. I think that sometimes artist will do that, where they're just too vague. Radiohead to me sometimes does that. That's just, "I don't know what you're talking about." I can do the lyrics and after a while I was like, I don't understand it. And I like a little bit of that. But sometimes I like it to be precise. Like, 'Oh, I know what you're talking about there." Maybe next song, I don't know so well. But I like there to be some things. Even the way that on The Soft Bulletin where we did like Superman. I sort of felt like, I think people knew we were getting at some kind of profound confrontation where people would have to, they would have to confront their own beliefs and themselves or something. It's hard to do and be lyrical and still, and not to take, you know, a couple of hours to talk about. So I wanted to be precise on some of the songs, but some other songs are still, I think they're strange and vague and In The Morning Of The Magicians I don't know, it's about just love and hate and stuff, you know I mean, there's a plenty of vague stuff going on. But with that particular image I wanted to be precise.

U: I can imagine...and No3 (Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots Pt 1) is so cute.

W: It's very cute, I know. You know, and it's light, and 'cos other songs really again are about death, and, and you know mature philosophy and, "Oh," sometimes it's just too much.

U: We need a rest.

W: Yeah, it's gotta be fun. Have some fun, even when, you know when we first started to sing the songs in The Soft Bulletin. That's why I would do the puppets. On the saddest songs, I do puppets. It's so sad, you get puppets at there, and then it's sort of fun. Because people don't wanna go out on Saturday night to see a band and just "woo"[weeping]'. You know what I mean. They want to have fun and I don't mind them being sad, but sad that makes you feel good. As opposed to just to reminding them of their own sadness. 'Cos some people, and maybe yourself included, will come to our shows because their lives at home are sad. They're going through some sadness and they want to leave the house and go see something fun. And they know they have to return to something at home, that is very sad. I've been in that situation plenty. So I don't want people to come and their sadness be made worse. I want them to at least, if it's sad, they can laugh at it and have fun.

U: Yes, that's very important.

W: Yeah, so when I was, I know we're doing the sad songs. That's why I started to do the puppets, and that made people...

U: ...and the blood.

W: ...and the blood and the confetti. 'Cos I thought these songs are sad. And I thought that would just alleviate that seriousness. And in some way it worked perfectly.

U: People were smiling and singing along. It was great.

W: I know. It worked out so perfect. It did. And I would never have guessed it could work that well. I was wanting something to work 'cos I love singing those songs, but I knew it would be too sad if I didn't do something. So luckily, these things that I did, they worked and then the things that worked really good, I just kept doing those things and I'd try new things and see if that worked. But yeah, you're right, I just... little by little, I just, it worked out, it worked out good.

U: What kind of music are you listening to recently?

W: I was trying to think...you know, I like that new Buffalo Daughter, that's new. But I think, like me and you talked about it, you know, it seemed like something they recorded a couple of years ago. And, you know, I really like that new Madonna record. I still listen to it quite a bit.

U: Which one?

W: Music. I like that a lot. I like the Radiohead stuff and...I'm trying to think...you know, [in a low voice] I didn't like the new Bjork record as much as I did her last couple records. Were you disappointed with that?

U: A bit of disappointment...

W: I thought I just wish..., stopping so weird all the time. I really like her first couple records a lot, though.

U: I like her Debut and the second one.

W: Yeah, those sounded good. But the stuff she's been doing lately is, it didn't do that much for me. I'm trying to think...there are always so many records and you forget what they are...

U: Chemical Brothers?

W: Oh yeah. I like all they're stuff. They really got on a good run. I think...oh, you know, just saying usual stuff. I mean it's rare that I'll ever get rid of stuff that I'm listening to. It's usually I'm just keep adding stuff. Now I listen to more jazz and more The Beatles and Led Zeppelin and Techno, and you know everything becomes more, you know, Daft Punk and everything. Instead of it sort of feeling like, "Oh, that music's old and bogus, don't listen to it anymore." I just keep adding to it. It's like, "Oh now I can listen to all this stuff." So, really everything, I mean, New, old, everything, all at the same time. And you know these things that I think that, I was trying to think, I think the biggest influence on, on new music, has really been rap stuff, where it's really big weird heavy beats. And, and real sparse sort of production. I really like The Timbaland and Nelly Furtado stuff where they did couple of remixes together. There was some Puff Duddy remixes that he did. I heard really only on TV real quick like on some commercials, and that band Nerd that we talked about, just really nice drums and these weird little loops and nice bass stuff and I think that influences me more. Because it's so new and so strange. You hear it, "What the fuck was that?" and it's got all these great computer tricks. And I just really, I love all that sort of, sounds like from outer space, you know, and I don't really think it's important that music you play necessarily has to be progressive or new. That's just what I've chosen to do you know, there's people like Bell and Sebastian, who sound like they could have been made in 1973, and that's great. I don't, it doesn't matter to me. I don't think music has any linear thing that it has to go to, everybody has to be futuristic or whatever. You know, but that's just to me. I like to do those new things and so I, when, I hear something, like, "Oh, I wanna try something weird like that."

U: Tell us about Christmas on Mars.

W: Christmas on Mars. We've been working on it for about, it's about a year now. I mean, we've been actually shooting, not, you know, everyday but you know at least, you know, I've done, maybe, we've done maybe about 30 minutes of what will be, like a 90 min movie. So maybe a third done. And you know Steven is the main guy and I'm the Martian in it. Michael is in it as well. But we haven't shot him yet, you know. And all our friends from round here. Michelle's gonna be in it, and, and it's strange. It would be a strange movie. I'm hoping that it's kind of strange and sad, but you know, is hopeful in the end. But I do like that kind of melancholy. We have some of the music and some of the scenes together. And I don't really have any of them here that you can see, but some of them are really sad, you know, it's supposed to be a slightly sad story of this first Christmas but everything turns out good, you know.

U: It's a black and white film.

W: It's black and white. I don't know, black and white always feels a little more surreal to me than color. I mean I think there're some marvellous things you can do with color, but black and white, just, slightly remove from the reality but you know, if something is sad, it seems sadder in black and white, I don't know why. [Laughs]

U: How about the music? You already made the score?

W: We haven't done all the score. But we've done little bits. As I go, I sort of make these scenes and if I want them with music, we go ahead and make music. It's almost like we made the music first and then made the scenes to match the music, almost like a music video, but I kinda know what the scene's gonna be so we kinda make music that can work in a bunch of different way. We'll make it shorter and longer and cut it up, so I can fit it into the scene. And it does work. Those are the best bits, where I've got the music and you know, the atmosphere, and all the editing and stuff. So I hope it works out. I really like the idea of being able to make films and to do the music for it, and to direct and do all that. 'Cos I mean we do music videos anyway you know, we've been doing a bunch of those things thinking all that stuff that we do on our shows, where it's all there. I mean a lot of stuff I steal, but a lot of it we make up ourselves. So it isn't as though it's something entirely new. It's new that we direct, you know making such a long story of a film, but it's not something that we haven't already done the bunch, it's just to keep doing it, doing it, and doing it.

U: Warner Brothers really supports you?

W: Warner Brothers, I think Warner Brothers is going to do it. They're not, they don't wanna do it right now, 'cos they're doing that record of ours, but I think in another three or four months they'll probably start to say, "OK. What are you gonna do about the movie and where's it gonna be," and all that. And I think, they're gonna, I think they're gonna like it and so I think it'll end up being a Warner Brothers,

U: ...show...

W:...thing.

U: Could be on your live shows as you said before, like a live-film circuit.

W: That's what I envision in a way. Instead of it playing like in a movie theater. I'm hoping, it will be like a multi-media kind of presentation, where it isn't like the way we play, we take the movie around and it has like big speakers. You know like the thing we almost thought today was big screen and only, it will be playing really loud, loud and we would have, I don't know, like snow would fall on you and maybe smoke would come out, I don't know. You know but it will be something where you're more like a concert where you're really involved and it isn't just you know, like a bigger version of watching TV, like some movie theaters are. That's, it's, is kind of like a concert, but not quite like a concert. And I don't know if it'll work or not, I don't know. But that's kind of what I'm trying to do.

U: How about in Japan?

W: I think, oh, yeah, yeah. All around the world. I would go with the movie in a way. I'd go talk about the movie and you know I'd go and I give people an idea of what's gonna happen with short movies. We'd talk about the player and just sort of be on tour, but with the movie, as opposed to being with the band, you know, I don't know, it could work.

U: I think it could work.

W: It could be interesting. And I you know, I'm not saying that it will be the best movie ever made, but I'm really just hoping to give people something that's just, just different, you know. It's like, "Oh, we go to concerts and you go see movies," And it just is a unique thing that, you know, you saw this movie, next stage, you could go walking, and some movie at this club, and it was loud and stuff fell down on us. And it would just be a strange experience. To me that would be enough. It doesn't have to be the best movie ever made. It doesn't have to be any of that. Just, I'm just looking for one, another unique experience that I can sort of present to people. Maybe that's a nice little strange story that could only be told in The Flaming Lips sort of universe, where it's sad, and it's powerful but it doesn't,

U: ...and emotional...

W: It's emotional, but it doesn't make you feel sad. You like it but it's sad. It's happy and sad, and that's what I'm hoping to create something like, like in, in the way that we've been able to do through some of our music, and in the same way, with the film and the characters.